I just published / I’ve just published my notes to help advanced students learn to learn to become independent and resourcesful lifelong learners!
Check it all out on talkingpeople.net!
I just published / I’ve just published my notes to help advanced students learn to learn to become independent and resourcesful lifelong learners!
Check it all out on talkingpeople.net!
Thanks, Roberto, and thanks to the students in his group, for taking part!
I’m surprised I didn’t include more “Well done!”‘s and “Awesome”‘s!
(At the moment I’m finishing Roberto’s interactive presentation, which I hope to upload in a couple of days.)
With all my love, as usual, and hoping you’ll all enjoy it. If you find it useful for learning English, remember to share the link. In this way, people will see that it is possible to learn languages in public/state-run adult language schools! In defense of public education!
I’m sorry about delays publishing people’s work. I’ve decided just to jot down SOME corrections. Otherwise, it takes me many hours!!!
Here is Ainhoa, Laura and Pablo trying to tackle the card-activiy on banning things
On EINSTEIN!!
Thanks, Juancar!! I hope it’s useful for you too. I corrected all the minor mistakes. There were no major mistakes. I’ll bring a copy of this AUTORIZACIÓN PARA SUBIDA DE VÍDEOS! 🙂
This post also occurred because of Juancar: how to read Einstein’s equation
by Intermedio 2 students (scroll down a bit, please!)
http://www.talkingpeople.net/tp/skills/speaking/oralperformances/listofperformances.htm
by an Avanzado 2 student, who practiced the monologue three times, avoiding the mistakes he had made previously, and who did not write it down, as I keep asking students! (because practicing Speaking is not practicing WRITING!! eek!)
http://www.talkingpeople.net/tp/skills/speaking/oralperformances/na2_elderly_mon.htm
For your List of Mistakes. This LoM material came up in Complaint Letters written by AVANZADO 2 students:
“to be worth” + -ing – IS it WORTH leanING?
“Consequently, we concluded it would BE WORTH boardING the plane first.” (Very formal, too risky to use because then you need to sound this formal in the rest of the letter. This is why I always recommend you use semiformal language.)
“So we thought it would BE WORTH gettING on the plane first” (This can be used also in semiformal letters, like semiformal complaints at the B2 level. And it’s also OK for informal conversations, of course.)
With “it” it is very common in informal language, when you know what “it” is referring to. “It” operates as a reminder of an action you have mentioned before (ellipsis).
“So we thought it would BE WORTH IT” meaning “So we thought it would be worth getting on the plane first.”
Discussion
Can we say “So we thought it would be WORTH IT TO get* on the plane first”?
Answer: In theory you can’t, but… It is common to hear (people speaking)/read (newspapers) — although not in British English…
“So we thought it would BE WORTH IT TO get…” — The “it + infinitive” is not the case of…
“So we thought it would BE WORTH TO get…” — I think this is not ever heard anywhere.
So why do we hear “worth it to” if it’s meant to be wrong? Here is my guess: in this case people tend to combine it with the infinitive because (although this is not a grammar rule) intuitively they tend to associate the infinitive to present and future events (including future in the past), and the gerund to past events (as in “Hello” = Nice to meet you; “Good bye” = Nice meeting you” or the verbs that change their meaning depending on whether they are used with infinitive or gerund, like “remember”: Pres/Fut = “Remember to get the bread”, Past = “I remember spending hours with my cousins when I was a child”). This means that even though their Grammar Mind knows you should say “So we thought it would be worth getting on the plane first” considering “getting on the plane” is here a future in the past, they might then use “So we thought it would be worth it to get”
Then, there are more meanings and uses of “worth”, so post your questions if you have any on that.
Native speakers, linguists and teachers can also post freely to discuss the matters I address here!!! Thanks! 🙂
Avanzado 2. Listen to her 5-minute February Exam Practice exercise! Thanks, Felicia!
Thanks to Sara, Alberto and Fernando!
Rosa and I worked at EOI San Fernando de Henares from 2004 to 2006. From her, I learned a great deal of things, and one of them was to organize the Writings with specific dates to be handed in each month. In this way, students would have a month to learn to write a certain kind of text and then I would be able to jot down stuff for a List of Mistakes based on common mistakes in the groups. Most importantly, we would have a C-Day (Composition Day) where students would read out their work, and I would share info on Writing Strategies and for people’s LoM. Sometimes Writings were so many that we spent a few lessons doing this. And I tell you — people learned a lot. This year I haven’t followed this plan because of the teaching and learning circumstances at present. But if you’re a teacher and would like to learn a bit about that, download the Program/Syllabus I designed for Avanzado 2 when we were free to design courses — according to the Constitution we are still free, but the truth is Schools are imposing that all teachers pick the same textbook and stick to it so they can “teach the same things”!!! As if learning were that simple! http://www.talkingpeople.net/tp/ra/avanzado2/index.htm
Learn while you’re lying on a couch or bed! 😀
In case you missed this audio!
Useful Language for Speaking Interactions
Listen and repeat while visualizing the grammar of these indirect questions. You will improve your fluency and accuracy with this kind of structures!
I have just typed in people’s absent marks for March. Next the Head of Studies will issue the lists of people who would lose their Old Student status if they had missed over a 30% of the lessons (pérdida de la oficialidad). I know you know, but just in case — In no case do people lose their right to take the exam, so don’t panic.
List of Mistakes. I can’t remember if I shared this with you. I wrote it in the English Department while talking to my colleagues, and getting their feedback. It includes Politeness issues, too. List of Mistakes (2 Word pages)
“Spanish speakers and the use of ‘will’ – or the question on expressing the future” by michelle ford[1] (talkingpeople.net, 2013 – copyleft, just quote this line: authorship and website project)
This article is meant to be one in a series intended to explain why Spanish-speakers, particularly Spanish people, may sound impolite in English, particularly in Britain or Ireland – my explanation being it’s a language (& culture) problem. For EFL Spanish-speaking learners this article will help them improve their use of English and overcome this communication problem.
One thing is certain: English speakers, especially British speakers, have a way of approaching the notion of future action that is completely different to the Spanish-speaking way of approaching the future! For one thing, English speakers do not have future tenses (except the “Future Simple” or “Will” future), just different ways – based on verbal and prepositional phrases – to indicate – mark my words here – the degree of likelihood of occurrence of a future event. In other words, whether we can expect an event to happen and to which point. This entails a kind of commitment, too – when expressing plans or intentions, English speakers indicate a commitment to that happening. And that is actually why English speakers have this sophisticated system of expressing things about future events.
For the Spanish-speaking mind, none of this applies. In Spanish grammar, there exists a complete set of future tenses, but Spanish speakers do not feel committed to the future happening or not for their choice of tense! The use of a tense doesn’t mean anything in terms of how likely it is for the action to happen – at least as if compared to the case in English. The use of futures in Spanish is similar to the use of prepositions in Spanish: we have a great deal of prepositions, but manage with a few, which means, we’re not particularly concerned with accuracy. And this is something that relates to culture: if English-speakers rely on language uses and structures to mean a great number of things, Spanish-speakers rely on paralinguistic features (stress, rhythm, pitch, intonation) and body language including facial expressions. To illustrate this, in Spanish we can use the imperative with social relationships (the woman working in the neighborhood/neighbourhood bakery) and be perfectly polite, even affectionate.
So let us now consider what happens when Spanish speakers confront the task of having to express a future event. Even if their teachers explain how the “system” works for the futures (see my notes for Elementary/Pre-Intermediate students at http://www.talkingpeople.net/tp/func_gram/gramwebs/future01.htm), it will take them time to assimilate the information, time and practice! – which is understandable, because the frame of mind in terms of understanding “the future” is completely different in both languages. Until they reach the stage of deep understanding, they will tend to use “will” for expressing any kind of future. This puts them in awkward situations:
British host family: “Would you like to visit the British Library tomorrow?”
Spanish reply: “Yes, I will go.”
This is puzzling to hear for a number of different reasons. First, the way to reply to Invitations/Offerings (this is the language function that we need to consider) is not correct. For “Would you like…?” questions we can use “I’d love to,” “I’m terribly sorry. I can’t,” “Yes, please,” “No, thank you,” but not “Yes, I will.”
Then – what does this “Yes, I will go” mean? Is it indicating a spontaneous decision? The context is not quite right, so that’s not what would be understood in a first impression. Is it indicating a promise? “Yes, I promise to go.” It doesn’t sound right either! It’s kind of extremely dramatic! For the Spanish-speaking mind this is the future tense, just indicating a future, but for the English-speaking mind this, if sorted out it must be a future, is a future for predictions, and replying with a prediction on your involvement in the action when you are invited or offered something sounds awkward, or impolite.
Spanish student in Britain, to British host family: “What will you do tomorrow?”
This can be puzzling to hear, because it could be interpreted as connoting things the Spanish speaker doesn’t really want to mean! The unmarked question for adults about their future actions is always with “going to” because we know that adults have plans and intentions. If we use “will” this could feel like we think those adults are incapable of having plans or intentions! These are OK sentences:
To a child: “What will you be when you grow up?” (here, “will” is not exactly about a future very much ahead, as Spanish speakers tend to interpret when they manage considering proximity in time, but as a future we know is just wishful thinking! (Actually I think adults should never ask this question to children!)
To a teenager in her/his last year of secondary education: “What are you going to do when you finish your studies here?” If you ask them, “What will you do when you finish here?” it’s because you know the person has no plans and intentions and you just want to know about her/his predictions!
To an adult: “What are you doing tomorrow?” or “What are you going to do tomorrow,” never “What will you do tomorrow?” if we’re thinking of ordinary life situations.
My mother to me when I told her I was going to travel the world when I was in my twenties: “Where will you sleep?” etc. This meant she knew I did not travel like tourists do, but like wanderers do!!
Well, I’ll stop here. Please post your comments, especially if you disagree with any of this, or you wish to add to it in some way, and feel free to post your questions, too!
[1] I am an EFL teacher in Spain, in public/state-run adult language education, and although I’m a Spanish/US American English speaker, as a I live in Europe, I have to include British English in my curricula.
and a final comment
Telling people about things we read /red/!
Spiro Freire, a woman writer in Spain, had written an article on beggars with was totally uppity and cruel, and which is what Rebeca, an Avanzado 2 student, tells us about. I write a final comment on that, but you need to press PAUSE the moment you see it because there won’t be enough time for you to read it.
Thanks to Alicia (Avanzado 2 Martes), we all found out I was wrong when I used “dissecated” today in class, to name animals that are dead and stuffed and dried! 😀 Never trust a teacher! 😀 😀 The funny thing is, I didn’t doubt! I thought that was the word! Not like at other times when I know I don’t know a word and I make it up!!! 😀 😀 (See if you can get me in one of these!) 😀
Alicia heard the word and looked it up! And she told me during the break. She’s that nice! She’s that intelligent! And of course, I suggested she contribute that information in class!
In a network of looking up stuff, Alicia contacted Ana, and Ana found that “dissect” had two meanings, though in specialized language, for science. “Dissect” meant split open an adorable animal to see what it had inside, and also stuff an animal.
I could’ve shut up just then, but I didn’t! Instead, I got further confused! I saw a dissected frog in my mind, and simply changed the topic: “Oh, yes, “dissect” — I knew the word, promise! I dissected frogs when I was a kid!” — So yes, I was confirming I had no notion about “disecar”!! 😀
I think Alicia will appreciate the post I found, full of STUFFED ANIMALS, DISSECTED!!
Some years ago, Raúl gave an OP on his Learning to Listen experience. I hope he inspires you!
Raúl mentions “garden paths” but that is not the name of the kind of mistake. My wrong, so sorry about that! What happened to him, what he misheard, that kind of mistake is called “mondegreens” in linguistics. Here is a worksheet I wrote a few years ago explaining Mistakes by Native Speakers, to cheer students up! Anyway, in some group this year I mentioned a very famous mondegreen, based on one of Dylan’s songs, “Dead ants are my friends, they’re blowing in the wind” 😀
lexical_mistakesbynatives (1 Word page)
Oh, you can base our OP on your adorable textbook, on the language you learn from it, I mean!
Comparing
Traditionally, we EFL teachers in Spain have explained when to use “as” or “like” in the following way:
However, in today’s English – because languages are ALIVE, never forget this, meaning They are constantly changing — native speakers have started to use “like + S + V” in informal spoken or written English. Examples: I’m like you are! I behave exactly like you behave!
What should you do in exams? (written or spoken). Well, if the situation or context for your task allows the use of informal language, you can use either of the two, but if the language you produce requires a more formal register, stick to what you always learned/learnt!
—
So — more on this last point:
British and US American Englishes
You can keep to the theoretical guideline explained here under “Comparing”, if you take the “like” below as part of the verb, “look like” (not “look” + “like”).
(And yes, there is another meaning to “look like” for both US and UK Englishes:
The girl looks like her sister. The girl and her sister look alike.)
LOOK LIKE / LOOK AS IF
However, we can use “like” like this, instead of “as if,” with other verbs: it sounds, it feels, they talk…
In class, I’ve been clarifying a few things about “as” and “like” in Intermedio 2. I’m posting them now in case they’re of use to more people!
AS for roles
The agenda of weeks 1, 2 and 3 that is on the Bulletin Board in class is also here.
The new items are that today and tomorrow I’m explaining how we will proceed with the Speaking and Writing tests on the Educamadrid site.
Week 3 – Update
AT THE END OF THIS WEEK, you should have consolidated a knowledge of the kinds of Reading & Listening tasks (and Writing tasks, for the groups getting feedback in class about Politeness et al.) and you should have reduced your fears, developed your confidence in terms of Exam Format. Hopefully, you will have been using the underlining technique, notetaking including skeleton of meaning, some phonemic transcription, skimming and scanning, proofreading your work…
SPEAKING
Get your copies of the sample tasks on the Educamadrid site. You will have time in class to prepare them with your classmates: practice/practise speaking about those topics freely, brainstorm on language, and then practice timed speaking at home. Meanwhile I’ll be calling out people’s names to come to Exam Area. YOU SHOULD NOT WRITE DOWN YOUR MONOLOGUES OR DIALOGUES. You should practice SPEAKING on the same topic over and over again, till you feel confident, using your detailed outline and your jottings from brainstorming on language.
Then, after you have done it again in Exam Area, when I call your name (I’ll use your list numbers), you can record your sample monologues, so that you can listen to them again throughout the rest of this course.
So now you have two areas of Speaking activities to work on in class and at home: the ones based on units 1-5, so that you use the language learned/learnt from using your textbook audios and other exercises; and the timed tasks covering all of the sample cards you have (work on one a week, for instance).
WRITING
Once I’ve given you back your Practice Writing (Intermedio 2’s), work on your List of Mistakes, and start working on Task 1 of the Sample Writing test on Educamadrid. You should be handing it in in the second week in March. Once you get it back, work on your LoM and then do Task 2.
As unit 5 depends on your work at home, remember that you can also hand in your Writing corresponding to unit 5, but only once you have learned to do that kind of writing from your textbook. Considering dates, both Task 2 of the Sample Writing Test and Writing 5 will probably have their deadline just after the spring holidays, perhaps just before them! We’ll see.
Week 4 – Finishing Exam Format Practice Month
We’ll continue doing orals in class, I’ll comment on people’s mistakes, so we can learn to put grammar into use. And we’ll pay special attention to pronunciation, too.
In proposals to professionals, when you are not a professional of that field (e.g., when you are a learner addressing your teacher),
Some advice for tasks where an adult learner should suggest ways in which to improve a language lesson: Don’t make the YOU=teacher responsible for what is not their responsibility. Try to use more indirect statements, not involving anyone, or involving your group, the group of learners who need to improve their behavior/behaviour in class, in terms of speaking. (Adult learners in Madrid should try to acknowledge the responsibility they have in not practicing/practising speaking in public in class. EFL teachers actually do zillions of things to encourage them to do so. Still, adult learners keep making teachers responsible for their lack of practice, and this is ill-focused, meaning this will never allow those people to tackle their problem successfully and overcome it!)
(more to come)
You shouldn’t make any of these mistakes, and even though you know the grammar, you make them when you speak or write, so it is VITAL that you always PROOFREAD your writings and LISTEN TO YOURSELF as you speak. In this way, you will correct your own mistakes:
List of Mistakes
Politeness Mistakes – For proposals, suggestions… when you are not going to present critical thinking (a well-reasoned argument that sustains your critic)
WARNING!! about using “should.” “Should” has two very different meanings/uses. You learn that “should” is for advice — and this is the only use of “should” you need to know about for the time being (Here is a reason why it is not very positive to be using a B2 textbook, really, in my professional opinion as a language teacher.) At the B2 level you also learn that “should” is used for strong obligation. But you should be very careful (advice by teacher) because its use is restricted. The authorities use this “should” when they inform us about our duties with taxes, for instance. We also use it more personally when we feel morally obliged to do something. Consequently, if we are not in a position of “giving advice” (for instance to your teachers, even if you are also a teacher, because in this context you are not the teacher), for instance, to professionals about how they should do their job, even if you consider your opinion is important, even if the teacher or the professional shares this, you should not (strong obligation) use “should” because even if you mean it as advice, it will sound as strong obligation, and therefore, arrogant, patronizing, intrusive.
This is one of the reasons why so many of your writings sounded rude (except when the “should” applied to students, not to the teacher), improper at the least. So —
Don’t say “We should do (this or that)” to people who are professionals when you aren’t in their group (if you aren’t a professional of the same field). However, you can apply it to the people in your same group, when you feel your equals and you have a moral duty you are not living up to! Example: “We could do more speaking activities (proposal to teacher), and as students we should make an effort to volunteer.”
Here’s is Alba’s work with the teacher’s feedback in block letters in the transcript. Hope it’s useful! Thanks, Alba!
Yabba dabba doo! is Fred Flinstone’s cry, yes! Well, the link is NOT taking you to the Flinstones, but to a much nicer video!
Anyway, sorry for the enthusiasm! It’s taken me ages to publish Irene’s work on the Talking People Podcast. First because I had tons of Writings to correct. Then because I was trying to use the iMovie program to create a movie where you would listen to Irene’s voice while reading my feedback! As we did in my previous public school (Here is one example so you know what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzd009NtDW4 ) BUT — I was using a movie editor that I could manage! Sigh!
Anyway, while you listen to Irene on this podcast episode, make sure you check out the List of Mistakes and Good Things. It’ll help learn to monitor your production which means it’ll help you to learn to listen to yourself as you speak, which is of paramount importance because it gives you the chance of fixing your mistakes — and consequently, pass your Speaking Test or in real life, succeed in communication.
And now, I’m going to burn up my weekend! Yabba Dabba Doo!
Dear students,
I’m finally back to working on your recordings (yes! I finally checked everybody’s Writing 1!). Today I’ll be working on Irene’s (Int2 Tues) because she’s donating her work to the Talking People Podcast, so to say! 🙂 This means we’ll be publishing a new podcast episode with an Intermedio 2 student’s speaking activity (Speak about someone you love). Here is the new section on the Talking People website — it’s called “Oral activities by learners with feedback from their teacher“. (Yes, you are all welcome to offer your oral work for this project! 😉 )
Then, not for the TP Pod but for students’ private use, I have Lara’s monologue and a little interaction she did with Isabel (both in Int2 Mon) and Isabel’s monologue, too (if you send me an email!!!).
And then — here’s where I’m kind of confused: I have audios by other people, but they haven’t sent me an email, which means I can’t be working on that till they do! I don’t mind working for you all, but I hate to work for nothing, and when people don’t comply with this little and adorable requirement of: “Please, send me an email with your Group in the subject line and your name in the message box” I refuse to do that work for them. I hope you understand what I mean. 🙂 IF you did send me an email and you are not mentioned here, my apologies!!! Will you send me an email again? Thanks so much!
This list is based on the First Writing Assignment by my two groups of Intermedio 2 students.
So my “Well done!”, “Excellent”, “Good work” only refers to your English in the Writing Assignment, unless you have ticks in the rest of the requirements. Don’t feel bad about having made methodological mistakes — just do it right the next time, if you want to develop this ability and if you wish to make sure you won’t forget about the requirements in your final test! 🙂 Here is the link to the Writing Guideline I posted here in October and pinned on the Bulletin Board in class, too.
You should have a section in your notebook where you register your mistakes (crossed out in red) and the correct form (underlined in green), and you should use this list before practicing your speaking activities and before doing your writing assignment. For instance, how do you spell “writing”? Well, there you are! How many people spell it with two t’s?! “Written” has a double t and that’s why the “i” is short: /rítn/ “Writing” has one “t” and the previous “i” is long: /ráiting/
The example in class is this one: https://projects4englishlearners.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/example-of-lom-list-of-mistakes/